Paranoid about Cookies...

[Jeffrey Watts]

On 18 May 2000, Mike Coleman wrote:

> > Note that Amazon.com tracks your buying and viewing habits...
> 
> I'm not crazy about that either.  At least they are potentially using
> the data properly.

So how is this different from what DoubleClick is(was) trying to do?  I
believe the only difference is that you don't necessarily know in advance
who their member websites are.

> I wouldn't mind it if it was strictly opt-in, and great care was taken
> to anonymize the target groups (including outside auditing, etc).  
> That's not what's happening at all, though.

Banner ads _are_ opt-in.  You opt to go to that web site.  You can avoid
the adverts by _not_ going to that web site.  I know it's kind of lame,
but look at what we have now with billboards.

> Maybe.  The market didn't bring us seat belts or the Internet, though
> they are highly desirable and very economical for society as a whole.

Depends on how you look at it.  One could say that the government is an
extension of our market, given that it lives and breathes with tax money,
which is directly proportional to the health of the economy.  So the
government is drawn towards making money (which is evident when you look
at the interaction of lobbyists and congresspersons).

Saving lives (people are worth more alive than dead) and improving the
speed of communication are measures which will profit society as a whole,
so one could hold that the market drove it.

> It was bad because Intel was trying to ram something their customers
> generally didn't want.  I believe the CPUID "feature" is a privacy
> disaster, and I'm glad it's gone.

The feature itself has no privacy concerns.  The software changes that
Intel was proposing MS implement were the problem.

> They do, but I can't see any good reason for this.  Generally the
> mechanisms available to keep corporations of any size from
> unauthorized use of software seem to be quite effective.

Heh.  Never had a support contract, have you?  The serial numbers are
there to facilitate support and identify machines.  It's much easier for a
sysadmin in California to tell a support person the serial number of a
machine in New York when all he has to do is type a simple command at the
command line, instead of reading a label on the back.  That's pretty much
all I do at Sprint with those numbers.

> I don't believe that this was an incorrect impression.  If you're
> running your MSN client (i.e., a program written by Microsoft) on your
> CPUID cpu, you are powerless to prevent it from sending off the id.  
> (As I recall, anyway; it's been awhile since I read about this.)

Correct, but it would have been suicide for MS to implement this.  Intel
would have been better off selling the feature as a way of maintaining
inventory.

> I consider that my usage patterns *are* private.

If you go to my site, it is my business as well as yours.  It's not
private information, but it can lead to problems though when the
government is involved, or the information is distributed.

> Maybe.  Perhaps the analogy should be that the employer records all
> keystrokes (i.e., digits) tapped out on your phone and sells that
> information.  Ever check your bank balance from work?

Sure, that would work.  But you shouldn't be doing any kind of personal
business from work, remember?  ;-)

> I think I sense a contradiction here.  If you don't think the behavior
> is unethical or illegal, why object to it?  And why would it bother
> you so much that you'd even quit your job, just on that basis?

It's the slippery slope I fear.  Although I feel the individual actions
are innocent and ethical, I agree with you that we need to watch for the
precipice past which we cannot turn back.  I just don't believe that the
solution is to condemn and blast entities like DoubleClick (though it does
send a reminder out to business that people care about privacy).  I think
that the government needs to agree to restrict itself in its use of power.

J.

o-----------------------------------o
| Jeffrey Watts                     |
| watts at jayhawks.net            o--------------------------------------o
| Systems Programmer            | "What is this talk of 'release?'     |
| Network Systems Management    |  We do not make software 'releases.' |
| Sprint Communications         |  Our software 'escapes' leaving a    |
o-------------------------------|  bloody trail of designers and       |
                                |  quality assurance people in its     |
                                |  wake."                              |
                                |  -- MoncriefJM at gvl.esys.com          |
                                |  From the PerlTK mailing list        |
                                o--------------------------------------o